Macro in official matches

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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby supernatural » March 30th, 2020, 8:55 pm

eleven wrote:
You're a coward ^^ . You turks ruin this game since you joined all european competitions since 2016 to now. You could spam your macros each other on your league ^_^



AHAHAAHAHAHHAHA LOOK AT THIS RETARDED SUBHUMAN HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH MAYBE TURKS DONT RUIN THE GAME, YOU GUYS JUST SHIT AND DONT HAVE LEVEL TO COMPETE AGAINST TURKS? HOW ABOUT THAT TWELVE? STOP CRYING AHAHAHAHAH IF YOU THINK TURKS USE MACRO, I JUST POSTED THE CODES FOR YOU INSTALL IT AND WIN AGAINST ONE TURK THEN WE DISCUSS STUFF. :cheers:
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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby supernatural » March 30th, 2020, 8:58 pm

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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby tim » March 30th, 2020, 9:05 pm

Delighted to be part of players who do not use macro.

Then now between those who cheat and those who speak about the high extrapolation, there is no risk of getting by, the community is much too toxic unfortunately
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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby B4D4SS » March 30th, 2020, 9:40 pm

Its sad that how fast you press x has such an impact on the game, this is a reflection of defective physics.

Anyway, if admins wanna do something useful about this (seeing that the kick limit isn't the perfect solution - as shown here), just ban this guy permanently with your common sense.

99% of players with a gun to their head, asked if he's using macro or not, would say that he's using macro based on those 2 clips.

That at least would scare others from using macro and thats your best hope of stopping this somewhat.
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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby Masa » March 30th, 2020, 10:24 pm

Its like 100% macro and there are only one rule for that :P
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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby Gary » March 31st, 2020, 3:36 am

Just so you know, this isn't being ignored as I keep receiving PMs on TS.

The problem I find is that if we were to ban a player for using a macro, then we would most likely have to ban 75% of the player base as well.

I'm more open to a warning system, for example:-

1st time - player receives a warning
2nd time - player receives a midseason ban, or x amount of games that could carry over to the following season, and team receives deflosses for 1st or 2nd leg games.
3rd time - player receives a season ban and team receives deflosses for every game the player was involved in.
4th time - player receives a permanent ban and the team is disbanded.

Even though the rule says a permanent ban, I don't think it is fair in this case - the rule may have to be changed in the future because IMO the penalty for using a macro for the first time shouldn't be more severe than the penalty for DDoSing somebody.

This is just an idea for now, we're still deciding what should happen in the case from Misfits vs Classic.
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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby Yannex » March 31st, 2020, 5:45 am

this league will be of total 5 teams if all macro players will be banned... admins cant do shit and wont do shit. and if you want a league to play in, you cant blame them.
so suck it up and just play.. besides if you're smart enough you'll will vs full macro team

in fact.. just go and download some macro and enjoy
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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby Nocke » March 31st, 2020, 8:05 am

we will have 5 players if macro players get banned

Why is this a problem? Warn them, ban them. Give them something that would make them not use macro again. It's in the rules. They will come back to this game even if they get warned/banned. A good majority of players on FM already play haxball every day, especially now since it's quarantine time. I'm sure they will be able to play haxball just right without macro as well.
But as it has always been the case, nothing will be done in the end. Most of the admins are way too relaxed and chill to even care enough about the situation to do something about it.
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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby LaggerMet » March 31st, 2020, 8:30 am

I have one problem, it seems that in here there are tons of people that agree he used macro... But to me it seems not so different from cases where other players were suspected of macro, but they defended themselves + others defended them because they are reputable... So only the non reputable players will get banned while the reputable players will have a pass?
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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby socrates » March 31st, 2020, 8:31 am

Why not increase the kick limiter even more? You might lose some of the spam element of the game but that's a boring part of haxball anyway.

It's easy to ask for admins to be stricter and start handing out bans but I honestly can't see that ending well. Everyone here thinks that it's just opponents etc that will be banned. You should consider that you yourself might get banned even if you don't use a macro. Admins do not have perfect judgement, for sure they will ban innocent people and maybe that could be you.
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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby EdinsonCavani » March 31st, 2020, 8:50 am

Gary wrote:The problem I find is that if we were to ban a player for using a macro, then we would most likely have to ban 75% of the player base as well.


There is a little difference between probable use of macro and an evident use, when you have a doubt about that it's legit you don't take measures but if you have a RULE in that you say that macro players will be suspended forever, this macro episode has no doubts -> follow the rule, do you think that in the next match hakutter will play without macros or will he just fix that?

A non measure could bring this league to a sure condemnation (I wouldn't be surprised if in the next matchdays there will be a spread of 200/300% + people downloading and using macros). Taking no measure means taking measure

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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby Lee » March 31st, 2020, 8:52 am

you can just tell that the people that are using macro are the people saying "Well U have to ban 80% of haxball then!!!" or the "you will have to ban most of the fm teams then!"
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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby EdinsonCavani » March 31st, 2020, 8:52 am

socrates wrote:for sure they will ban innocent people and maybe that could be you.


There's nothing innocent on hakutter's flash

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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby sw1zy » March 31st, 2020, 9:45 am

socrates wrote:Why not increase the kick limiter even more? You might lose some of the spam element of the game but that's a boring part of haxball anyway.

It's easy to ask for admins to be stricter and start handing out bans but I honestly can't see that ending well. Everyone here thinks that it's just opponents etc that will be banned. You should consider that you yourself might get banned even if you don't use a macro. Admins do not have perfect judgement, for sure they will ban innocent people and maybe that could be you.
just find a group of trustable players who can help admins deciding if the player has macro or not, i doubt someone will get an unfair punishment
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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby Nocke » March 31st, 2020, 9:48 am

socrates wrote:It's easy to ask for admins to be stricter and start handing out bans but I honestly can't see that ending well. Everyone here thinks that it's just opponents etc that will be banned. You should consider that you yourself might get banned even if you don't use a macro. Admins do not have perfect judgement, for sure they will ban innocent people and maybe that could be you.


Of course it's easy to ask, but personally, if I expect something of someone, then I expect to be able to do that thing as well. If you consider that you, or the admin team, are not capable of checking games thoroughly or consider it a waste of time, then I suggest to invite one more member to the staff team whose sole purpose is to check games for POTENTIAL macro, as that is the only solution right now. I would be more than happy to.

Introducing a kick limit means nothing, people are still using macro, just a dumbed down version of it. Might we be able to match a macro's spam if there's a kick limit? Possibly. But as was the case just now, Hakutter just dominated everyone in spam that game. A random person could make that macro just a bit slower, without as many key presses, and it might pass as just a regular fast spam. This is why games need to be checked.

Yes, people do not have perfect judgement. However, if one person, let's say me in this example, checks a game and says "oh, X is spamming quite fast, oh, he might have macro? let's ask other members of the staff team/other people."...then it's not hard to pass a relatively good judgement.

Generally, in life, if you really want something, you can do it, whatever it is. If you do nothing, nothing will happen.
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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby Hakut » March 31st, 2020, 10:54 am

You are just so bad apex sry
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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby Hakut » March 31st, 2020, 11:00 am

Just spam my friend xD you got 5 OG and you said about macro you dogshit
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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby Gimenez20 » March 31st, 2020, 11:02 am

socrates wrote:Why not increase the kick limiter even more? You might lose some of the spam element of the game but that's a boring part of haxball anyway.

It's easy to ask for admins to be stricter and start handing out bans but I honestly can't see that ending well. Everyone here thinks that it's just opponents etc that will be banned. You should consider that you yourself might get banned even if you don't use a macro. Admins do not have perfect judgement, for sure they will ban innocent people and maybe that could be you.


Well sounds good, but what kickrate limit would do you put?
I put 9 0 0 in my public rooms and is hard to play with tricks and corner zones.
I have asked in the haxball forum if is possible to play equal, as one kick for one key press but nobody answer me.
Or that Basro could add a command to detect macro in rooms or something like this.

https://github.com/haxball/haxball-issues/issues/1036
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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby jasko » March 31st, 2020, 11:11 am

I really didn't want to get involved in this topic again as I've already spent way too much time trying to fight against macro abusing, but here we go again...

I just wanted to remind everyone that when I offered help to admins they simply said there can never be enough proof to be certain that someone is actually using macro and most of the community mocked me when some individuals "leaked" the list I made back then, but every now and then I see complaining around here and I just don't understand it, everyone complaining, but no one wants to do anything, and when someone offers help you make fun of him. Nothing is ever going to change that way.

In case something does change, please make sure the person making decisions is neutral, objective and unbiased. When I was making my list I was only considering the flashes between the kicks, not the kicks themselves. I looked for a pattern, delays between flashes, speed of the flashes, that seemed like the only reasonable way to be able to tell macro from a normal spam, but obviously you can actually never be 100% sure. Remember, fast spam and winning most of the duels doesn't always mean that the player uses macro.

If anything, macro was never more useless than nowadays. Since we started using kick limit I noticed the gameplay changed tremendously. Obviously macro still helps and some players were able to spam faster than 10 kicks per second without macro, but for majority of the community I think this was and is the way to go, I don't think the kick limit should be lowered or increased at all and everyone can, with a bit of intelligence counter people who are able to outspam them.
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Re: Macro in official matches

Postby apex1 » March 31st, 2020, 11:28 am

hakutter wrote:Just spam my friend xD you got 5 OG and you said about macro you dogshit


ur spam in the rec and here its the same shit https://youtu.be/xko6QSi0BoU?t=253
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