Team disbands and Player bans

Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby socrates » April 2nd, 2020, 2:54 pm

I think the reason why punishments are lighter is because they are intending to start penalising now with a lot less evidence and just with subjective opinions? If admins will still only penalise if there is a lot of evidence then I don't see the value of these changes either.

What about allowing macro but increasing kick limit at same time? This keeps it fair for everyone but hopefully reduces the impact that spam can have on the game still. (This would need to be tested as I don't know if kick limiter works well here or if there would be too many ghost kicks).
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby lsco » April 2nd, 2020, 2:54 pm

B4D4SS wrote:
Gary wrote:@B4D4SS - I don't see anything changing a great deal. We've had one case made all season, that I can recall, against somebody using a macro. Sure, there are most likely players who use a macro already, but what can admins do about it if it goes unreported? The kick-limit helps and we're looking at a new combination at the moment.

It doesn't pay to cheat and this new ruling isn't an enabler. Ultimately the Team Captain risks a defloss (more about this below) or the game being replayed if their player uses a macro.

If the Team Captain decides to cut the player, effectively banning them for a leg anyway, then will another team risk signing them if it means they could potentially get deflosses for 1st/2nd leg games or even disbanded? - you don't have to answer this, but it's the thought process I had when trying to think of a new rule.

So players will ban themselves if they use a macro and it gets reported / reviewed. Admins can only do so much, but we need help too from Captains etc to ensure FP is followed. (in my view).

@Isco - Misfits decided it would be fair to replay the game. Initially the opposing Captain would have a choice of taking the defwin or replaying the game. I won't change the rule above now it's been decided, but I will edit it on the main rulebook thread to show both options.


It enables them because you are softening the rules, which already haven't worked great maybe cus you never made an example of anybody, but this was your perfect chance to scare people, but you did the opposite, not only not follow through with your rule but actually change it and make it much softer after finally catching somebody conclusively..

If this guy got perma-banned everybody else would be legitimately scared to use macro and risk being banned forever. Now you have the rules saying if we catch you, you get a warning, so for a cheaters mind why does it not make sense to use macro until you (maybe) get caught, and then at that point stop because only then are you risking ban time. Ive never used macro but Im only looking at this from a cheaters point of view, we all know Haxballers aren't the most moral people about, half the community are kids, so you have to assume the worst and work from there


I couldn't agree more tbh
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby Lyreco » April 2nd, 2020, 2:56 pm

Replaying the game is fair, hakutters teammates knew nothing about him using macro, so it would be unfair for them. Hakutter should be banned for like two seasons.
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby apex1 » April 2nd, 2020, 3:02 pm

i think its not useful to give him warning and then ban because idk if its his first time that he used macro in official but after this time he wont use macro again and i think other players that using macro and no one knows about them now dont be afraid to use macro because even if they are caught then nothing will happen, they will get warning.
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby Rizzoli » April 2nd, 2020, 3:04 pm

@Gary, as we can see, his captain didn't "ban" him until the end of this leg yet, so it's a bad conclusion.
"Jesam li veći kockar ja, koji sam prokockao vlastiti novac ili neki koji su prokockali svetinju, osmijeh djece i radost navijača?"

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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby Gimenez20 » April 2nd, 2020, 3:07 pm

Or all we use macro or nobody. Warnings is a bullshit.
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby B4D4SS » April 2nd, 2020, 3:19 pm

socrates wrote:I think the reason why punishments are lighter is because they are intending to start penalising now with a lot less evidence and just with subjective opinions? If admins will still only penalise if there is a lot of evidence then I don't see the value of these changes either.

What about allowing macro but increasing kick limit at same time? This keeps it fair for everyone but hopefully reduces the impact that spam can have on the game still. (This would need to be tested as I don't know if kick limiter works well here or if there would be too many ghost kicks).


You could test that in the next fun cup to see if a higher kick limit interrupts with normal skills like rockets and lifts, if it doesn't interrupt the standard skills then it will probably improve the situation a lot to implement a higher kick rate.
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby Ferg » April 2nd, 2020, 3:49 pm

For me i was expecting at least a ban from playing the rest of the season, but he only got a warning somehow? Considering the ddos attack Gary wanted to make it fair, but lets not forget about the Georgians in the beggining of the season where they faked or i don't remember what happened, but they got a season ban.

I do agree with B4D 4SS that admins should take things cruelly, warning wouldn't stop him from using it again eventually.
Also for the defwin situation, we both agreed on playing again as it's not fair for the other team as they didnt know he had macro.
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby EdinsonCavani » April 2nd, 2020, 4:07 pm

You posted a rulebook for the season 27, so captains patiently ready It and they expect to send a team in a League which follows the WRITTEN rules.

8.1 a player caught using macro Will be permabanned from the League.

This was the rule for season 27 and this episode happened on this season but instead of applying the rule (as you have to do) you changed It because hakutter Is One of the most productive dms of the feedme. Why didn't you change the rules when you banned a full team for a fake lmao, because you don't care about normal players, on the next rulebook write the players Who are immune to rules
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby Yannex » April 2nd, 2020, 4:26 pm

i'm just surprised how someone can be so bad that he needs to use macro in div 2
and still not even be 1st... XDD trash ass monkey :popcorn:

got him to NC finals tho... where he still got raped
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby Saky » April 2nd, 2020, 4:51 pm

eleven wrote: you changed It because hakutter Is One of the most productive dms of the feedme.

wtf?
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby Muris 9 » April 2nd, 2020, 5:03 pm

Saky wrote:
eleven wrote: you changed It because hakutter Is One of the most productive dms of the feedme.

wtf?

:edinson: :fp:
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby Muris 9 » April 2nd, 2020, 5:07 pm

eleven wrote:You posted a rulebook for the season 27, so captains patiently ready It and they expect to send a team in a League which follows the WRITTEN rules.

8.1 a player caught using macro Will be permabanned from the League.

This was the rule for season 27 and this episode happened on this season but instead of applying the rule (as you have to do) you changed It because hakutter Is One of the most productive dms of the feedme. Why didn't you change the rules when you banned a full team for a fake lmao, because you don't care about normal players, on the next rulebook write the players Who are immune to rules


it's not productive talking about respecting rules or trashtalking about others if we do cheat in the first place, right? :D
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby Gary » April 14th, 2020, 9:28 pm

The below decisions have been made following both officials that were reported recently:-

THC vs B&J:-

Templle receives a warning for insulting and/or abusive behaviour towards Fucked Ups in their official match.

B&J captain has decided to disband the team. Their players are free to join another team in this leg - we will create a specific rule for this situation for the new season.

Fucked Ups vs FEAR

Paranoia receives a warning for macro usage in an official game. FEAR captain chose a defwin & the league table has been updated.

All warnings will be reviewed at the end of the season where further action may be taken.
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby gio » April 15th, 2020, 9:43 am

Ofc random italian team got deflose because we are hated for flaming everyone but team in div1 never get punished even if they use clearly macro because they are untouchable.. Nice job coward admins
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby gio » April 15th, 2020, 9:54 am

You can just open topic and update matchdays as admins because all of you don't have balls to ban strong players and just giving deflose in 2nd division :D, that s mean be an admin that dont understand nothing about this game
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby Lyreco » April 15th, 2020, 11:01 am

So, EVERYONE, legit EVERYONE, knows for a fact that Owned aka Paranoia uses macro for years and he only gets a warning?? I respect you admins, but please man.. please. Just ban this guy, hakutter should of been banned too, what's the point in warnings when it's macro? If you use it the first time, it means you know what you were doing and you know you are breaking the rules, its not like 4def mistakes or something (even tho some people do it on purpose).
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby apex1 » April 15th, 2020, 11:07 am

Lyreco wrote:So, EVERYONE, legit EVERYONE, knows for a fact that Owned aka Paranoia uses macro for years and he only gets a warning?? I respect you admins, but please man.. please. Just ban this guy, hakutter should of been banned too, what's the point in warnings when it's macro? If you use it the first time, it means you know what you were doing and you know you are breaking the rules, its not like 4def mistakes or something (even tho some people do it on purpose).


agree
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby Anddy » April 15th, 2020, 11:16 am

Hola
I understand what gary is thinking by only giving warnings for macro users, he did not ban ddos users because he wanted to be kind to them (and he's too kind snif)
that's true, ban for macro and warning for ddos is stupid, both actions should lead to perma ban, and know it's a bit too late to ban ddos users since it happened more than a month ago and never (i think) happened again.

BUT, about macro, gary, you really should consider banning them, who cares now that you've forgiven to cancers, feed me is just laughing at you about these decisions, most (if not all) players are agreeing on banning them, listen to the people, what apex and amp did by showing proofs of macro is an opportunity you have to seize

However, by reporting every suspicious spam, we could be going to have a lot of lies, rarely the truth, but mostly the good decision, it takes time to fight macro, almost every admins of every community that has ever existed fought it for the sake of haxball, and if we have to use tools that guarantee 70% macro detected, then we have to use it, even if 30% will go through safe, we're still winning.

don't be a cunt, be a born admin gary
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Re: Team disbands and Player bans

Postby Yeye » April 15th, 2020, 11:17 am

rly nice decision im agree with you admins
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