HTML5

Moderator: Herna

Which mode you would prefer to be used in FM 4v4 League in the upcoming season?

Flash
90
50%
HTML5
91
50%
 
Total votes : 181

Re: HTML5

Postby Mamba » April 19th, 2018, 10:44 am

Tortogol wrote:I play on Windows XP, html5 doesn't work. Do you really want the best player to retire?


Do you also use corded phone?
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Re: HTML5

Postby OffSync » April 19th, 2018, 11:43 am

Tortogol wrote:I play on Windows XP, html5 doesn't work. Do you really want the best player to retire?


Unless you are using internet explorer, winXP can run html5. A newish browser seems to have everything to run html5 haxball:

https://html5test.com/s/0e21893cf72cf762.html

If it needs a plugin or something follow this guide:

http://wp.xin.at/archives/4059

It will work but if you are too lazy to fix it I would still rather set up a charity for you to buy a laptop than play flash in 2018.

Proof of html5 working on xp: https://github.com/haxball/haxball-issues/issues/237
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Re: HTML5

Postby Tortogol » April 19th, 2018, 2:16 pm

OffSync wrote:
Tortogol wrote:I play on Windows XP, html5 doesn't work. Do you really want the best player to retire?


Unless you are using internet explorer, winXP can run html5. A newish browser seems to have everything to run html5 haxball:

https://html5test.com/s/0e21893cf72cf762.html

If it needs a plugin or something follow this guide:

http://wp.xin.at/archives/4059

It will work but if you are too lazy to fix it I would still rather set up a charity for you to buy a laptop than play flash in 2018.

Proof of html5 working on xp: https://github.com/haxball/haxball-issues/issues/237


the problem isn't running html, the problem is playing. The image is always breaking and crashing, its impossible to play. i have like 40 fps in html.

I agree that html can solve lots of problems but, speaking seriously, the game doesn't win that much talking about the playstyle. Almost everyone can do a trick and bounce the ball in the html5, you don't need to be skill master or wtv to dominate the tricks like in flash. That is my real problem with html5, it doesn't seem the same game, its a fkn clean game where everyone can do stupid stuff and spam, wtv the game is much more lucky. I like the dirty classic mode of haxball where we gotta be better and skillful to make something not just click ''x'' randomly.
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Re: HTML5

Postby OffSync » April 19th, 2018, 3:37 pm

Tortogol wrote:Almost everyone can do a trick and bounce the ball in the html5, you don't need to be skill master or wtv to dominate the tricks like in flash.


I know what you mean. Its common sense that HTML5 is easier to play. I dont agree on the skill part tho. If this community would play html5 for as long as flash, the skill ceiling would be much higher. Its harder to be a better player in html5 because you dont get that much advantage if you have the ball. Your opponent doesnt have to wait 2-3 ticks to see what you have actually done with the ball.

I know its easier to do your tricks in flash, since the opponent is delayed by at least 2 ticks. But if you cant do your tricks in html5 it only means your tricks suck.

Source: my tricks suck, but I dont blame the game for it. You shouldnt either.
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Re: HTML5

Postby B4D4SS » April 19th, 2018, 7:46 pm

OffSync wrote:
Tortogol wrote:Almost everyone can do a trick and bounce the ball in the html5, you don't need to be skill master or wtv to dominate the tricks like in flash.


I know what you mean. Its common sense that HTML5 is easier to play. I dont agree on the skill part tho. If this community would play html5 for as long as flash, the skill ceiling would be much higher. Its harder to be a better player in html5 because you dont get that much advantage if you have the ball. Your opponent doesnt have to wait 2-3 ticks to see what you have actually done with the ball.

I know its easier to do your tricks in flash, since the opponent is delayed by at least 2 ticks. But if you cant do your tricks in html5 it only means your tricks suck.

Source: my tricks suck, but I dont blame the game for it. You shouldnt either.


He's not saying its easier to do tricks in Flash, he's saying its easier in HTML and everybody just does them effortlessly now without any subtle movements, fast hands, or brain usage etc.. That equals to a lower skill ceiling, everybody can do skills + the art of pressing, because of the effortless skill in HTML everybody has, has been destroyed which is also another massive blow to the skill ceiling. You can't press in HTML regardless of how organised your team is, people just slice through you easily without being skillful, so the new META for HTML is camp or leave 2v1s/3v2s with no intelligent and safe ways to press to get the ball back, real high skill ceiling tactics/game sense right?

The game is for kids on Sunday mornings not for leagues, the longer HTML is played the less people you'll find in Haxball leagues.
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Re: HTML5

Postby socrates » April 20th, 2018, 7:38 am

Personally I don't think those extra pixels make any difference and its all in peoples head.

If everyone can do skills on HTML doesn't that mean that the only reason they can't on flash is problems with the flash format? Since the gameplay is coded exactly the same. Additionally if you say its easier to defend on html because of the few extra pixels wouldn't that make it a higher skill ceiling on HTML where its not easy to pull off tricks against opponents as they don't suffer from the delay in flash? If anything HTML becomes a more true representation then of skills as it promotes teamwork, passing and positional play rather than 'skills' against players with a 32ms delay on flash.

But like I said I don't think there is any significant difference between the 2 formats, your logic just seems wrong to me. The best players will stay the best players on any format as tricks aren't the most important thing in hax.
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Re: HTML5

Postby Falk » April 20th, 2018, 10:37 am

socrates wrote:Personally I don't think those extra pixels make any difference and its all in peoples head.

If everyone can do skills on HTML doesn't that mean that the only reason they can't on flash is problems with the flash format? Since the gameplay is coded exactly the same. Additionally if you say its easier to defend on html because of the few extra pixels wouldn't that make it a higher skill ceiling on HTML where its not easy to pull off tricks against opponents as they don't suffer from the delay in flash? If anything HTML becomes a more true representation then of skills as it promotes teamwork, passing and positional play rather than 'skills' against players with a 32ms delay on flash.

But like I said I don't think there is any significant difference between the 2 formats, your logic just seems wrong to me. The best players will stay the best players on any format as tricks aren't the most important thing in hax.


I agree with everything uve said. Just look at me, I am not even that good at doing tricks compared to other average players heck
i can’t even barely do a rocketshot, tigershot, doubleshot whatver u niggas call it but that hasn’t prevented me from not staying at the top consistently. Being good at tricks is very useful but like socrates said there is much more other important things to be great in haxball.

I personally like playing on flash but i feel like its time to move on to something new.
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Re: HTML5

Postby Maldo » April 20th, 2018, 10:43 am

give a chance to html, if we dont feel comfortable on it, we can always switch back to flash
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Re: HTML5

Postby Ter » April 20th, 2018, 11:11 am

As long as haxball.com redirects to flash version, unless the game gets broken, we should continue on flash version, since it's where the majority of the playerbase/interest is. Maybe the solution passes through making the cup of this community solely played on html, so people can get used to play 4x4 html and the version of the game itself gradually stops being a strange corpse to competitive/league players.
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Re: HTML5

Postby Prof MARKUS » April 20th, 2018, 12:22 pm

Maldo wrote:give a chance to html, if we dont feel comfortable on it, we can always switch back to flash


oh, I agree with @maldo :cheers: its a great idea :) :thumbup:
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Re: HTML5

Postby OffSync » April 20th, 2018, 1:33 pm

B4D4SS wrote:He's not saying its easier to do tricks in Flash, he's saying its easier in HTML and everybody just does them effortlessly now without any subtle movements, fast hands, or brain usage etc.. That equals to a lower skill ceiling, everybody can do skills + the art of pressing, because of the effortless skill in HTML everybody has, has been destroyed which is also another massive blow to the skill ceiling. You can't press in HTML regardless of how organised your team is, people just slice through you easily without being skillful, so the new META for HTML is camp or leave 2v1s/3v2s with no intelligent and safe ways to press to get the ball back, real high skill ceiling tactics/game sense right?


Most of us play this game for like 5 years. This is a closed community. Everyone is aware of every trick, whether he can do it or not.

More people doing the same tricks -> higher skill ceiling on the long run.

Less people doing the same tricks -> lower skill ceiling.

If your entire gameplay is destroyed because a huge artificial lag was removed from the game then I have bad news for you. What you have is not skill, its just exploiting a bug.

Join a html5 room and start learning the game again.
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Re: HTML5

Postby Yannex » April 21st, 2018, 11:36 am

OffSync wrote:
B4D4SS wrote:He's not saying its easier to do tricks in Flash, he's saying its easier in HTML and everybody just does them effortlessly now without any subtle movements, fast hands, or brain usage etc.. That equals to a lower skill ceiling, everybody can do skills + the art of pressing, because of the effortless skill in HTML everybody has, has been destroyed which is also another massive blow to the skill ceiling. You can't press in HTML regardless of how organised your team is, people just slice through you easily without being skillful, so the new META for HTML is camp or leave 2v1s/3v2s with no intelligent and safe ways to press to get the ball back, real high skill ceiling tactics/game sense right?


Most of us play this game for like 5 years. This is a closed community. Everyone is aware of every trick, whether he can do it or not.

More people doing the same tricks -> higher skill ceiling on the long run.

Less people doing the same tricks -> lower skill ceiling.

If your entire gameplay is destroyed because a huge artificial lag was removed from the game then I have bad news for you. What you have is not skill, its just exploiting a bug.

Join a html5 room and start learning the game again.


thats really true tbh, but i can understand people who dont want to change, for them flash feels like html and thats why they dont feel they need to change or want too.. obv the physics are the same people who say its not are pure retards

but for people like me and people who usually have to play with 100-116 ping we can definitely feel the change, on server host i had 68 stable
and the best thing is its not about the ping, html has your screen Hz as your FPS, personally i have 144Hz screen and on html it shows it as your FPS and it really feels like 144 FPS in game...
does it affect my level or skills for the better? yes... and as skilled player i'm surprised because i thought there are limit to skills (atleast mine) and on html i feel i can improve them even if its by making my skills smoother and more useful and thats what people dont see.. with html they can improve alot its an upgrade for everyone
but like i said alot feel exactly the same so they dont want to change so i understand them, i just think its retarded

and for torto's comment up there.. thats what i meant by retards... he basically confirmed he doesnt want to play html because people will become better and outskill or rape him... he wants to be the only one who can be skilled etc... no wonder hes trash at this game and he can only spam X to show he can do skills
i'm a bit less skilled than torto yet i rape the shit out of him whether its fs or official, and hes scared html will make even more people better.. thats the reason people like him dont want to change to html
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Re: HTML5

Postby B4D4SS » April 21st, 2018, 11:58 am

Just watch any 3v3 FM HTML game and u see its not 'higher level' at all. Each team leaves like ten 2v1s to the opponents, cus of the fact its to damn easy to skill without being skillful, I find myself wall lifting everybody when I'm not even trying to, this isn't the same Haxball as Flash thanks to the new ball+player shape causing this - and even though its only a few pixels, it's a big difference to the gameplay. The bottom of the ball is 4pixels wide in Flash, in HTML its 2 pixels wide so a 50% difference which a huge proportional difference, so it can have a big impact despite being a few pixels only.

The new META in HTML will simply be for both teams to camp, which removes an entire extremely hard part of Haxball - intelligent and co-ordinated pressing, you simply can't do it anymore without backing off so much that you never get possession or leave 2v1s, people simply turn too quickly in HTML for you to reach tackles.
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Re: HTML5

Postby ATuntija » April 21st, 2018, 12:22 pm

B4D4SS wrote:Just watch any 3v3 FM HTML game and u see its not 'higher level' at all. Each team leaves like ten 2v1s to the opponents, cus of the fact its to damn easy to skill without being skillful, I find myself wall lifting everybody when I'm not even trying to, this isn't the same Haxball as Flash thanks to the new ball+player shape causing this - and even though its only a few pixels, it's a big difference to the gameplay. The bottom of the ball is 4pixels wide in Flash, in HTML its 2 pixels wide so a 50% difference which a huge proportional difference, so it can have a big impact despite being a few pixels only.

The new META in HTML will simply be for both teams to camp, which removes an entire extremely hard part of Haxball - intelligent and co-ordinated pressing, you simply can't do it anymore without backing off so much that you never get possession or leave 2v1s, people simply turn too quickly in HTML for you to reach tackles.


This has got nothing to do with HTML...

Just watch any premhax match and you see how many 2v1 there was. And it was played on Flash. :shock:

It's not about the platform, it's all about the fact that it's 3v3, not 4v4. And if you rush too much on 3v3, there will always be 2v1's to the both ends. Or are you blaming HTML also for rushing too much on field? :cyclops:
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Re: HTML5

Postby Sero07 » April 21st, 2018, 12:37 pm

All In tunti :popcorn:
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Re: HTML5

Postby B4D4SS » April 21st, 2018, 12:45 pm

ATuntija wrote:This has got nothing to do with HTML...

Just watch any premhax match and you see how many 2v1 there was. And it was played on Flash. :shock:

It's not about the platform, it's all about the fact that it's 3v3, not 4v4. And if you rush too much on 3v3, there will always be 2v1's to the both ends. Or are you blaming HTML also for rushing too much on field? :cyclops:


Well I've played PremHax 8 seasons in a row and I know that there's way more for 2v1s in these HTML games than Flash. And even from my own experience playing HTML 3v3s, I know when I'm pressing balls I used to reach on Flash, im not reaching it anymore in HTML despite being in the same positions/situations, so I just have to camp or leave 2v1s, there's no other options. It will be the same for 4v4, teams will just be in defence for ages or give opponents goal chances if they press out, because pressing doesn't work the same as it did on Flash and you can't reach these the tackle that you would've reached in the same situations on Flash.
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Re: HTML5

Postby Lyreco » April 21st, 2018, 12:52 pm

when im attacking the ball and im 100% sure i will get it i miss the ball, on flash it doesnt happen, the gameplay changed
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Re: HTML5

Postby jerix » April 21st, 2018, 1:01 pm

Lyreco wrote:when im attacking the ball and im 100% sure i will get it i miss the ball, on flash it doesnt happen, the gameplay changed


you're just shit
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Re: HTML5

Postby Yannex » April 21st, 2018, 1:06 pm

Lyreco wrote:when im attacking the ball and im 100% sure i will get it i miss the ball, on flash it doesnt happen, the gameplay changed


this is so sad... the guy who created the game confirmed it didnt change, players that play over 5 years say it didnt change...
honestly feel sorry for you guys
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Re: HTML5

Postby B4D4SS » April 21st, 2018, 1:19 pm

Yannex wrote:this is so sad... the guy who created the game confirmed it didnt change, players that play over 5 years say it didnt change...
honestly feel sorry for you guys


HTML5 and Flash create different shaped circles, basro puts circle in HTML5 physics and its different to Flash physics and different shaped visually also.

Of course basro didn't do it on purpose or put a different physics code, he put circle size 5 or whatever, so it comes out the same size but differently shaped cus of HTML5 and Flash making slightly different shaped circles.
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