About general/this recent macro issues

Talk about haxball in here, maps, sides, players, tactics, anything related to the game.

Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby LaggerMet » June 9th, 2019, 2:00 pm

huub wrote:
LaggerMet wrote:
huub wrote:Would be nice to see a little example of the difference between macro and a mechanical keyboard ( as in how it looks like, not the exact number inbetween the shots ), if anyone has that, and could make a little test ? Could run that detector tool to see the differences

As i do remember some people used to upgrade the keyboard, and also changed their style alot ( more controlled wallbounces, usually stronger in corners aswell ) Lets just say more robotic.
If anyone can make a little video of both examples, and maybe even a 3rd one without any but who just spams as fast as possible, we could compare.

Because i think they're gonna look quite similair ( mechanical and macro )

In fm there used to be a similar ( same ? ) tool to detect the timing in inbetween the tics, but for some reason it was not accurate enough to use as a '' macro detector ''

As for duels, quite sure that timing and positioning is way more important than some brainless spam.
For corners though, and probably also some other technique related stuff, i think it is an advantage on someone who needs to always humanly time their x.

I also don't understand how using macro can be even rewarding ? For some kids it might be fun to troll with it in fs'es once or twice, but on a general level, what is the point

Mechanical keyboard? In a mechanical keyboard you still need to press the X button normally... It doesn't change the fact that some players generate like 10 presses per a second which is definitely impossible for a human finger
if you wanna look at this yourself:
https://thehax.pl/forum/powtorki.php?na ... 7&t=16m17s
stop at 16:18, move to 0.25x and count the amount of presses until 16:19
if you think a human finger can do that with the right keyboard then i'll shut up


I just tried with my shitty 10 eu 5 year old keyboard where the button needs to be fully pushed, and actually reached 10 times
https://thehax.pl/forum/powtorki.php?na ... 34dd48e70d ( starting at 9 sec )
Sure anyone with a mechanical is gonna reach more than this

I haven't counted spookys one properly, but i think there were like 12 a 13 ? a few of them could be just a push against the ball aswell.

and now apply these presses when you spam a ball, you'll see it is not possible in the same way for you to push the ball forward
  • 0

User avatar
LaggerMet
 
Posts: 205
News Articles: 0
Betting Coins: 50
Reputation: 151

Joined: June 30th, 2013, 9:17 pm


Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby Ter » June 9th, 2019, 4:20 pm

B4D4SS wrote:If you don't know how to defend spams its your problem, macro is only effective if your positioning is wrong, at least in FLASH it was. So be mad at HTML for messing up the physics making macro's become OP now.

Even normal spams without macro are broken, look at the last 2 HCL finals how the goals where scored, random spam goals that couldn't be defended even with perfect post positioning. So IDK why macro's bother people so much, your fucked either way defending spams these days.


Its not fair but SuarezN7 explained it clearly, you cant catch cheaters without proof.

This is like looking at a muscular 100m sprinter and saying 'its clear he's using steroids cus he is so ripped, so ban him cus we can all see it', it doesn't work like that, you need proof.

Maybe zPooKy has a new keyboard which allows him to press x quicker, who know? He's probably using macro but nobody know's it for sure except him.

So go quit but thats not a good case, that's just trying to bully the admins into a corner where they have no choice but to do it your way.


I consider you a smart person, however the bold part is incredibly wrong, we can discuss it in private if you want.
  • 0

Ter
 
Posts: 84
News Articles: 0
Reputation: 60

Joined: January 27th, 2017, 9:16 pm


Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby Vak » June 9th, 2019, 4:55 pm

i managed this https://thehax.pl/forum/powtorki.php?na ... ce840cb221

around 12/13 per second
sometimes i can even go up to 15/16

that is for sure possible without macro.
  • 1

User avatar
Vak
 
Posts: 96
News Articles: 0
Reputation: 264

Joined: January 14th, 2015, 6:13 pm

Position: Forward

Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby jasko » June 9th, 2019, 5:20 pm

I've got a mechanical keyboard, but it doesnt change anything, you don't magically spam faster by 50% or something... That being said if someone is able to make 2 button spam work it can be a big advantage. Also I think the only effective way to call someone out is by looking at failed spam without the ball so we can clearly see every kick and delay between them, can't really judge when someone spams in a corner with the ball except if its extremely fast.
  • 0

 
Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something.

No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.

Courage is knowing what not to fear.

Showing off is the fool's idea of glory.
User avatar
jasko
 
Posts: 249
News Articles: 0
Reputation: 143

Joined: April 3rd, 2016, 11:02 pm

Position: Defensive Midfielder

Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby Ferg » June 9th, 2019, 5:25 pm

Hi, i really find this thread useless, but i want to say something.

Obviously people have macro in their keyboards and we can't detect that, but listen, this league had plenty users of macro even back in flash and what happened? nobody got banned for shit (might be wrong).

Also yall think the opponents player have macro when they outspam you, which makes no sense. Let me tell you that you can outspam a person depends on your position. Again i might be wrong, but i honestly don't care about this thread and i think admins don't care too.
  • 0

User avatar
Ferg
 
Posts: 16
News Articles: 0
Reputation: 18

Joined: April 27th, 2019, 11:15 am

Position: Forward

Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby Ter » June 9th, 2019, 5:47 pm

jasko wrote:I've got a mechanical keyboard, but it doesnt change anything, you don't magically spam faster by 50% or something... That being said if someone is able to make 2 button spam work it can be a big advantage. Also I think the only effective way to call someone out is by looking at failed spam without the ball so we can clearly see every kick and delay between them, can't really judge when someone spams in a corner with the ball except if its extremely fast.


That's just not possible, the coordination required to do that is a bit humanly impossible, specially considering this game will probably never become sustainable for the players (guaranteed money income), you would basically have to coordinate perfectly ur two fingers plus the other ones that control the movement of the player (arrow keys or whatever you people use). There was also another way that i saw in a video (), but the problem of this relies on you having to be completly focused on the two fingers pressing your shooting button, and your positioning would be compromised due to the intensity of the concentration you had to give to your shooting key, which, in my opinion, makes this as an unsustainable theory.
  • 4

Ter
 
Posts: 84
News Articles: 0
Reputation: 60

Joined: January 27th, 2017, 9:16 pm


Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby Vranj » June 9th, 2019, 6:43 pm

Ferg wrote:Hi, i really find this thread useless, but i want to say something.

Obviously people have macro in their keyboards and we can't detect that, but listen, this league had plenty users of macro even back in flash and what happened? nobody got banned for shit (might be wrong).

Also yall think the opponents player have macro when they outspam you, which makes no sense. Let me tell you that you can outspam a person depends on your position. Again i might be wrong, but i honestly don't care about this thread and i think admins don't care too.


I opened this thread to share my opinions, so it has no benefits for anybody, doesnt help to solve a problem or smth. Just my opinions. Thanks. xd
  • 0

User avatar
Vranj
 
Posts: 24
News Articles: 0
Reputation: 57

Joined: June 4th, 2016, 5:35 pm

Position: Attacking Midfielder

Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby Anddy » June 9th, 2019, 7:02 pm

I personally trick with X and spam with X and right CTRL
It took me a week to play perfectly like that but I started this in 2014
I'm spamming arround 15 kps with this technique, 9 with only one key AND EVEN WITH THAT I STILL GET DESTROYED VS STRONGER SPAM
Is there a software to show the exact inputs we do ?
  • 0

Anddy
 
Posts: 136
News Articles: 0
Reputation: 260

Joined: October 4th, 2015, 5:54 pm


Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby huub » June 9th, 2019, 8:05 pm

Ter wrote:
jasko wrote:I've got a mechanical keyboard, but it doesnt change anything, you don't magically spam faster by 50% or something... That being said if someone is able to make 2 button spam work it can be a big advantage. Also I think the only effective way to call someone out is by looking at failed spam without the ball so we can clearly see every kick and delay between them, can't really judge when someone spams in a corner with the ball except if its extremely fast.


That's just not possible, the coordination required to do that is a bit humanly impossible, specially considering this game will probably never become sustainable for the players (guaranteed money income), you would basically have to coordinate perfectly ur two fingers plus the other ones that control the movement of the player (arrow keys or whatever you people use). There was also another way that i saw in a video (), but the problem of this relies on you having to be completly focused on the two fingers pressing your shooting button, and your positioning would be compromised due to the intensity of the concentration you had to give to your shooting key, which, in my opinion, makes this as an unsustainable theory.


It really depends on the person, compared to lets say drumming this coordination means nothing.
Back around 2012 when i used to nerd alot on this game i played shift x often, and it became more like a 2nd nature, didnt require any extra focus.
I only did that during some specific moments though, not just every single spam. Might be too hard if its all the time ^^

@ Jasko, Im sure it does change anything, a keyboard thats way more sensitive and only requires like a soft touch should theoretically be faster. No idea if spooky got 50 % faster.


'' Also I think the only effective way to call someone out is by looking at failed spam without the ball so we can clearly see every kick and delay between them, can't really judge when someone spams in a corner with the ball except if its extremely fast. ''

I agree, usually it becomes visible right after a spam, when player x proceeds with some machinery spam for a bit of time. Also the amount between the shots should be counted indeed, not the number of shots.
  • 0

huub
 
Posts: 136
News Articles: 0
Reputation: 77

Joined: October 8th, 2012, 11:00 pm


Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby dolphinunicorn » June 9th, 2019, 8:38 pm

Ter wrote:
jasko wrote:I've got a mechanical keyboard, but it doesnt change anything, you don't magically spam faster by 50% or something... That being said if someone is able to make 2 button spam work it can be a big advantage. Also I think the only effective way to call someone out is by looking at failed spam without the ball so we can clearly see every kick and delay between them, can't really judge when someone spams in a corner with the ball except if its extremely fast.


That's just not possible, the coordination required to do that is a bit humanly impossible, specially considering this game will probably never become sustainable for the players (guaranteed money income), you would basically have to coordinate perfectly ur two fingers plus the other ones that control the movement of the player (arrow keys or whatever you people use). There was also another way that i saw in a video (), but the problem of this relies on you having to be completly focused on the two fingers pressing your shooting button, and your positioning would be compromised due to the intensity of the concentration you had to give to your shooting key, which, in my opinion, makes this as an unsustainable theory.


Are you 12? Are you a retard? Do you have autism? Why would you be spamming like this?

The Next time you see me, you better not say i got macro because i will fucking ddos you you piece of shit
  • -4

User avatar
dolphinunicorn
 
Posts: 331
News Articles: 0
Reputation: 741

Joined: April 19th, 2017, 3:31 pm

Position: Forward

Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby Ter » June 9th, 2019, 9:15 pm

huub wrote:
It really depends on the person, compared to lets say drumming this coordination means nothing.
Back around 2012 when i used to nerd alot on this game i played shift x often, and it became more like a 2nd nature, didnt require any extra focus.
I only did that during some specific moments though, not just every single spam. Might be too hard if its all the time ^^

@ Jasko, Im sure it does change anything, a keyboard thats way more sensitive and only requires like a soft touch should theoretically be faster. No idea if spooky got 50 % faster.


'' Also I think the only effective way to call someone out is by looking at failed spam without the ball so we can clearly see every kick and delay between them, can't really judge when someone spams in a corner with the ball except if its extremely fast. ''

I agree, usually it becomes visible right after a spam, when player x proceeds with some machinery spam for a bit of time. Also the amount between the shots should be counted indeed, not the number of shots.


There is a difference between knowing where you are going and not knowing where you are going. What I mean by that is, generally, when you are playing an instrument, you are playing it with the purpose of replicating an already existing melody made by someone else, which means, after some practice, you already know the movements that you need to make long before making them. In this game, you can't play by memories, i mean, of course you need to have some fundamentals in order to play the game at a proper level, but the best decisions inside the game are very context depending, and what i mean by that is that you have to think on the spot in order to succeed most of the time and not just repeat the same pattern over and over again (this is actually funny, because in the end, since this is a bit of a limited game, you actually do repeat some specific patterns over and over again, just with a slight deviation on the context, but for the sake of the argument, let's pretend haxball is a really complex game), and that's because the game is constantly "alive", since there are variables you don't control that are constantly in action changing the shape/context of the game, for example, your teammates and the opposition, while on the other side, the instrument is "dead", nothing changes about the instrument (unless you break it :D), just what you know about it. Even though you could actually have a good relationship between your brain and your hands, the reality is that it's completly different executing pre-thought movements in a living context (a game with variables you don't control) than in a dead context (an instrument or an object).
  • 0

Ter
 
Posts: 84
News Articles: 0
Reputation: 60

Joined: January 27th, 2017, 9:16 pm


Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby arianalbania » June 9th, 2019, 9:33 pm

shift+x(+0 sometimes) is the best combo
  • 1

arianalbania
 
Posts: 17
News Articles: 0
Reputation: 21

Joined: February 17th, 2014, 8:11 pm

Position: Goalkeeper

Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby P4ER » June 9th, 2019, 10:24 pm

check that out more of Insanity's amazing pro players:

https://thehax.pl/forum/powtorki.php?na ... 045c&t=56s
KROL amazing top striker drill through me and lagger like we are clicking in delay.. (close your eyes and listen to the clicks, you dont need to look at this to know its macro and ingame belive me my game froze for a second from the combine with that fast clicks and the ping)


ZPOOKY 1 MORE CLIP: (ty zpooky for being that obv)
https://thehax.pl/forum/powtorki.php?na ... 5c&t=4m47s



Enjoy watching this trash losers, if someone thinks its legit he is literally mental..

this is really how you want to play? i don't think there is a point to continue looking for clips on this obv team, its all up to the admins if they let them make this league a joke or not..
  • 5

Last edited by P4ER on June 10th, 2019, 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
P4ER
 
Posts: 45
News Articles: 0
Betting Coins: 50
Reputation: 201

Joined: April 13th, 2013, 8:15 am

Position: Attacking Midfielder

Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby Anddy » June 10th, 2019, 8:47 am

https://thehax.pl/forum/powtorki.php?na ... ee15ae1f64

In this rec, i used once a macro that i just coded, once my "normal" spam (ctrl + x)
guess which part is what (you can give reputation points to not spam the topic)
  • 0

Anddy
 
Posts: 136
News Articles: 0
Reputation: 260

Joined: October 4th, 2015, 5:54 pm


Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby P4ER » June 10th, 2019, 10:49 am

Anddy wrote:https://thehax.pl/forum/powtorki.php?nagranie=c2c0d0ecc4478b876148c7ee15ae1f64

In this rec, i used once a macro that i just coded, once my "normal" spam (ctrl + x)
guess which part is what (you can give reputation points to not spam the topic)

Its known that replays show macros very slow without the ball at least in the html version (Tested it with isco)
The only way to see if someone is using macro in replays is when the macro user contact the ball as i sent in the replays above.
  • 0

User avatar
P4ER
 
Posts: 45
News Articles: 0
Betting Coins: 50
Reputation: 201

Joined: April 13th, 2013, 8:15 am

Position: Attacking Midfielder

Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby Soul » June 10th, 2019, 12:56 pm

P4ER wrote:check that out more of Insanity's amazing pro players:

https://thehax.pl/forum/powtorki.php?na ... 045c&t=56s

2:30 xD didn't watch more
  • 0

Image
Image
User avatar
Soul
 
Posts: 434
News Articles: 0
Reputation: 884

Joined: January 17th, 2015, 11:27 am

Position: Goalkeeper

Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby JOHN RAMBO » June 10th, 2019, 2:01 pm

Soul wrote:
P4ER wrote:check that out more of Insanity's amazing pro players:

https://thehax.pl/forum/powtorki.php?na ... 045c&t=56s

2:30 xD didn't watch more



Watch out that he will accuse Marble now.

Honestly I don't care about/I don't know who uses or not macro.

For me it's just very funny to watch some players that when accused proceed themselves to accuse others like in their defense :lol: .
  • 0

User avatar
JOHN RAMBO
 
Posts: 8
News Articles: 0
Reputation: 1

Joined: September 29th, 2016, 6:20 pm


Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby aeRo » June 10th, 2019, 2:13 pm

just press kick buttons faster idiots
  • 0

Image
User avatar
aeRo
Elder of da Realm
 
Posts: 933
News Articles: 0
Reputation: 796

Joined: July 23rd, 2011, 11:00 pm
Location: South England


Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby Kivi » June 11th, 2019, 1:36 pm

Some people here are straight up retards, there's no way to say that in a polite way.

How are we in 2019 and people STILL DON'T KNOW how to beat macro/spam? You are not supposed to spam back against it, you're supposed to let him spam on you so that your model falls back with the ball a bit so that you can pass the ball around him. Strong spam generates a "force" that presses you back if you do not react to it which can EASILY be taken advantage of. This is only a skill issue.

And regarding the macro discussion, it's absolutely useless. I had a custom keyboard with a 1.3mm travel time and spamed with 2 keys simultaneously and had a stronger spam than some macros and against people with ridiculous settings, you just take their own tools against them and you'll make them look like the biggest fool on the field. In corners it's not about who spams the strongest, it's about when you press the key at the right time. If he's hugging the corner, you just block his path and walk with his model. If he literally spams X at the wall with a slight travel time, you only have to press X once at the right time and you win the wall-battle.

Macros are definitely not nice, but they're not game breaking. People are just too stupid or too lazy to find/research ways to beat macro users. There's nothing that FM can do to prevent that. They can only ban obvious cases (and I'd go as far as to say that KROL would be very high up the list for that). People who have experienced someone like Ced know that they've been banned for less.


Note: I'm not encouraging to ban KROL, only that he's definitely highly suspect regarding the possibility of having a macro.
  • 0

Image


Image
Kivi
 
Posts: 203
News Articles: 0
Reputation: 107

Joined: May 12th, 2013, 6:56 pm

Position: Forward

Re: About general/this recent macro issues

Postby aeRo » June 11th, 2019, 3:21 pm

Kivi wrote:Some people here are straight up retards, there's no way to say that in a polite way.

How are we in 2019 and people STILL DON'T KNOW how to beat macro/spam? You are not supposed to spam back against it, you're supposed to let him spam on you so that your model falls back with the ball a bit so that you can pass the ball around him. Strong spam generates a "force" that presses you back if you do not react to it which can EASILY be taken advantage of. This is only a skill issue.

And regarding the macro discussion, it's absolutely useless. I had a custom keyboard with a 1.3mm travel time and spamed with 2 keys simultaneously and had a stronger spam than some macros and against people with ridiculous settings, you just take their own tools against them and you'll make them look like the biggest fool on the field. In corners it's not about who spams the strongest, it's about when you press the key at the right time. If he's hugging the corner, you just block his path and walk with his model. If he literally spams X at the wall with a slight travel time, you only have to press X once at the right time and you win the wall-battle.

Macros are definitely not nice, but they're not game breaking. People are just too stupid or too lazy to find/research ways to beat macro users. There's nothing that FM can do to prevent that. They can only ban obvious cases (and I'd go as far as to say that KROL would be very high up the list for that). People who have experienced someone like Ced know that they've been banned for less.


Note: I'm not encouraging to ban KROL, only that he's definitely highly suspect regarding the possibility of having a macro.


Finally haxball produces a good copypasta
  • 0

Image
User avatar
aeRo
Elder of da Realm
 
Posts: 933
News Articles: 0
Reputation: 796

Joined: July 23rd, 2011, 11:00 pm
Location: South England


PreviousNext

Return to General Haxball Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron