Yet another extrapolation topic

[jasko]

Hello, everyone.

I was wondering... What would Haxball be like today, without extrapolation?

A big issue I have with today's Haxball compared to early html or any point in flash is the gameplay. Perhaps it wasn't changed per se, but the feeling for sure isn't the same as it was before. I think it has a lot to do with extrapolation... Extrapolation was made as a cure for input lag, but once people realized how OP it is the gameplay started changing. Now we have many players who base their whole gameplay/gamestyle around this "feature", doing things that were never possible earlier. Sure, that may be a good thing, but it also means that the advantage the better players had before is now mostly gone. In today's Haxball the main focus is on skill (90% extrapolation and getting used to it imo, other 10% is pure skill), fake kicks, blocks, incredible angle shots, "tricking" in corners, backpassing to dm, dm instantly backpassing back, then more choking of the ball in corner, it's basically killing the game and personally, I don't enjoy that at all, I know many of us don't. Just imagine that most of us play on 20-50ms latency, yet a lot of people use 100-200ms extrapolation. Literally anyone could start using that much and in a week they'd be able to do amazing turns, fake kicks, overall become incredibly skilled and unpredictable... It does come at a cost of visual lag, but it's nothing compared to what you gain from it.

Let's say someone decided to use 100 extrapolation, at the start it will seem laggy and useless, but in the long run, the 100ms prediction helps A LOT with the skill, you bounce the ball on the wall, but you see everything 100ms in the future, you can control it way better once your brains adapt to it, do faster tricks, etc. Now imagine having 8 players on the pitch abusing the same thing. Movement is faster, but space is limited, you'll get a robotic gameplay with 0 creativity and 0 options, the only way to score would be through spam and fake kicks (and harsh opponent's mistakes obviously), which is what's happening nowadays. Even gameplay on a map that was usually the complete opposite to 4v4 3def - Real Soccer has completely changed after everyone started using extrapolation. Passing, teamwork and creativity used the be the main traits of this map, but recently everything revolves around abusing throws and closing space by blocking. Matches are 20 minutes long, but you'd easily spend 15 minutes with a "dead" ball around throw-in line, fighting for millimeters of space and trying to trick your opponents to get a throw for your own team. It has lost all it's charm. The game became robotic and boring, even if you wanted to play differently, you simply can't, there's no space to do anything if the opponents decide to play like that. It's same for both big and Real Soccer.

If you ask me, it's all a chain reaction - a few guys start using high extrapolation, they become fast, others want to do it, too, now we have everyone using it and considering everyone is now able to skill and do what they want, we have a simpler, dumbed-down gameplay where nothing works like before. Now, again, I don't want to be a part of that.

So it brings me to the question I want to ask you... Would you switch to 0 extrapolation if it meant everyone else would have to use 0 extrapolation as well? Would you sacrifice comfort and the skill u have now thanks to extrapolation for even playing field and a more enjoyable (I guess that's pretty subjective) gameplay, where every fs and offi feel different?

[Per]

man jasko but why you care so much about this game everyone play how they want with extrapolation or no

[supermazhine]

last ssn u didnt care about extra when u won hcl and fm now you lose all ur games u are crying stop pls........... :

[Mod]

I get your point, but if extrapolation was removed people with 144hz and above would have an even bigger advantage than they have now compared to the people who only have 60hz, the game is cancer with extrapolation I agree with that, but at least extrapolation is a feature that everyone has access to, not everyone can just buy an expensive monitor to make the game as fast, if extrapolation was removed, the skill gap between people with 144hz and above and people with 60hz would be even bigger.

[jasko]

man jasko but why you care so much about this game everyone play how they want with extrapolation or no

Well, you are missing the point if this is all you get from what I said.

last ssn u didnt care about extra when u won hcl and fm now you lose all ur games u are crying stop pls........... :

Wrong, the only part I liked last season was the winning part, but I absolutely hated the gameplay, I was actually very frustrated at times. Here's my comment on github before we even played our first game of the season : https://github.com/haxball/haxball-issu ... -641547352 , but ok, instead of argumenting and discussing an evident issue with today's haxball all you can do is provoke and trashtalk and make it personal, that's nothing new from you, so I'm not surprised at all.

I get your point, but if extrapolation was removed people with 144hz and above would have an even bigger advantage than they have now compared to the people who only have 60hz, the game is cancer with extrapolation I agree with that, but at least extrapolation is a feature that everyone has access to, not everyone can just buy an expensive monitor to make the game as fast, if extrapolation was removed, the skill gap between people with 144hz and above and people with 60hz would be even bigger.

Perhaps you are correct, I'm merely sharing my own feelings and asking what others think about it.

[Whitee]

Feel free to blame CvRk in this case because basro created extrapolation when CvRk posted an issue thread about delay/movement issue https://github.com/haxball/haxball-issues/issues/329

[B4D4SS]

I get your point, but if extrapolation was removed people with 144hz and above would have an even bigger advantage than they have now compared to the people who only have 60hz, the game is cancer with extrapolation I agree with that, but at least extrapolation is a feature that everyone has access to, not everyone can just buy an expensive monitor to make the game as fast, if extrapolation was removed, the skill gap between people with 144hz and above and people with 60hz would be even bigger.

This is basically crab in a bucket mentality, you prefer everybody be equally fucked just so that we are all equal, instead of a few people fucked and everybody else enjoying Haxball. Terrible mindset if you want any game to be successful, popular or enjoyable.

Clearly the game is in an absolutely awful state because of extrapolation, and your more worried about some inequality from monitor differences, like thats in any way comparable to the issue of extrapolation destroying the entire game.

[Zoro1]

recently I was also thinking on the same subject man. pretty shocked that u wrote more or less the same ideas I had on my mind. for few days I was asking myself like, if all this extrapolation stuff would be deleted, would many players come back to the game? would they be even much more motivated? how about me, would I get much more motivated and try a bit harder? would it be much more equal competition for all players? I think all the answer is yes. but on the other hand, many extrapolation addicts might give up. maybe they would retire. such as hulk, misaj, and many more that I can't remember.

[Pedy]

recently I was also thinking on the same subject man. pretty shocked that u wrote more or less the same ideas I had on my mind. for few days I was asking myself like, if all this extrapolation stuff would be deleted, would many players come back to the game? would they be even much more motivated? how about me, would I get much more motivated and try a bit harder? would it be much more equal competition for all players? I think all the answer is yes. but on the other hand, many extrapolation addicts might give up. maybe they would retire. such as hulk, misaj, and many more that I can't remember.

Well on the other hand extrapolation + html made allot of people leave as well

[Bot88]

let's just spam basro on github to remove extrapolation or to limit it to 50 again

[sw1zy]

Ur brain is so used to extrapolation that a player with 100+(with its the majority i believe) would just quit the game because it would be impossible to play it ''properly'', i dont talk for myself because i currently play with 70 extra and have 144hz, i would still play if basro limited extra to 50 but probably 30-40% of the community would just leave.

Im not defending extrapolation abusers but it is what it is, imo its impossible to change it now.

[Yannex]

the only problem that came with extrapolation is that it made haxball a ping advantage game like all the fps\sports games
befor that the ping didnt effect the game, hell i remember playing 136\150 ping vs 30 ping and still win easy on none vps host... xd

but now extrapolation effects the ping alot which makes 16-40 ping players smooth af and 50-100 stutter and warp like crazy
then again nothing we can do about it this problem is literally in every game so..

[Lozano]

Ur brain is so used to extrapolation that a player with 100+(with its the majority i believe) would just quit the game because it would be impossible to play it ''properly'', i dont talk for myself because i currently play with 70 extra and have 144hz, i would still play if basro limited extra to 50 but probably 30-40% of the community would just leave.

Im not defending extrapolation abusers but it is what it is, imo its impossible to change it now.

100% agree on that.. [I'm just using 85]

[aMp]

You feel free to put 0 extrapolation for me its the same shit I never couldn't play with extrapolation I dont know why and now I am still using 0 sometimes I am using 40 on 1on1 4fun

Basro wont do nothing against this extrapolation + most of community is playing with +100 atm.

[Barca]

I miss I dont care in the voting

[SuarezN7]

0 extra is wooden as fuck, it's too late to get rid of the extrapolation. When basro limited it to 50 if *SOME* of the community didn't cry maybe with time people would've adapted and not have everyone on around 110extra average now.

[Flaviu]

i never used extrapolation and i never will

[LaggerMet]

i admit i didnt read because im tired as fuck but did you write a suggestion on how to enforce it?
unless of course you want to show this poll to basro and make him add a feature

[Anddy]

https://github.com/haxball/haxball-issu ... -643448925

[Ferg]

I don't think basro is going to reduce or even remove extrapolation from the game as i read Anddy's github post. So i don't see reason of spamming on this thread again even tho it is not the first post being made. I guess we have to continue using it and of course there will be people abusing it, it's just part of the game.